Lauren, who wanted to be a financial analyst, came to see me the day before her first interview. She would be meeting with a representative from Tool co. Lauren wanted to make sure she hadn't overlooked something in her interview preparation.
We looked at her research chart, discussed the twin peaks questions, and reviewed what Lauren knew about Tool co. Lauren and I walked through her responses to the common and the difficult questions. Lauren had researched the firm thoroughly and had thought about questions she might be asked. We discussed the questions she wanted to ask. Her own questions adhered to the two unbreakable rules. She was going to the firm's information session that night. Was anything missing?
Lauren had prepared well. I had only one more piece of advice. I suggested that Lauren review four thoughts that would stabilize her state of mind on the morning of her interview. Some of the thoughts she already knew from our earlier sessions, but some were new. I recommend that you review these four thoughts on the day of any interview.
Four Thoughts for Your State of Mind
- Focus on your objective--to get the job offer. You can decide whether you want the job if and when it's offered.
- Assume the best about the interviewer. Most interviewers are intelligent, well-intentioned, and intent on hiring. If your interviewer is not, there's nothing you can do about it anyway.
- Be yourself--at your best. Don't try to act the way you imagine someone else wants you to be.
- Remember that an interview is a business meeting between equals. See yourself as a professional discussing a potential business relationship with a particular firm, not as a student taking an oral exam.
The next day, Lauren wisely arrived at the waiting room about 15 minutes ahead of her interview time (a good idea; being late can destroy your chances). Her early arrival gave Lauren a chance to freshen up in the washroom.
At 9:00 A.M., as scheduled, Mike, the interviewer from Tool co, came into the waiting room. Because he had already met Lauren at the firm's information session, they recognized each other and exchanged some friendly greetings.
Mike (extending his hand to Lauren): Hi, Lauren, how are you? I'm glad to see you again. Lauren (standing up and extending her hand to shake Mike's): It's great to see you too, Mike, I really enjoyed your information session last night.
Between work and the information session, you must have had a long day yesterday. Mike: Yes, I did; but it's a part of my job I enjoy.
Mike and Lauren continued on their short walk from the waiting room to the interview room.
What follows is an abridged transcript of Lauren's interview with Mike from Tool co. Let's see what we can learn from it.
Small Talk
Mike: Well, Lauren, you're the first person I'm interviewing this morning. Do you like to schedule your interviews before class?
Lauren: Yes, I do. I have classes all morning and I work most afternoons, so early interviews work out best for me. Do you find that most students you interview have a preference for a particular time of day?
Mike: Yes, but it doesn't make any difference to me. I'm not affected by the time of day an interview is held. Because of other commitments or whatever, some students want to be first, some want to be last, and some prefer to be anything but first or last.
Lauren: I guess the idea is to schedule an interview appointment as best you can.
Mike: Yes, I don't think there are any especially fruitful times or especially fatal times to interview.
This dialogue is a good example of handling small talk well. Mike asked about when Lauren schedules interviews, but he clearly isn't going to evaluate Lauren based on this information. He does, however, want Lauren to be as relaxed as possible, so he eases into the interview with a harmless question. For her part, Lauren addresses Mike's question and then continues the conversation with a related question of her own. Lauren has shown here that she can pick up on a small talk topic and keep the subject going. That's a handy skill in business.
Hitches and Glitches
Mike's response to Lauren's question contains some good advice. Some students drive themselves crazy trying to get the best interview slot of the day. They are sure that a particular interviewing time (first/last of day; right before/right after lunch) will give them a comparative advantage because of some supposed state of mind the interviewer will be in. I have seen various advice givers supporting almost every hour of the day as the "best," but I have never seen any evidence to support any hour as being better than any other.
If you can choose an interview time, forget all that advice. Pick a time that's best for you--a time that conflicts least with classes or your part-time job. If you can't wake up before 10:00 A.M., don't schedule an interview for 9:00 A.M.
Whatever your decision, base it on your needs, not on some supposedly best time from the interviewer's point of view.
If your interview is not on campus, you will have to schedule a time that is mutually convenient for you and the interviewer. If you are interviewing on campus but your interview is scheduled without your input, what you lose is logistic flexibility, not any comparative advantage.
The Opening Question
Mike: Well, Lauren, I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed our information session last night. This morning will be our chance to meet one-to-one. We have about half an hour to see whether there might be a good match between Tool co and you. I'm going to ask some questions to try and find out more about you, and then there will be time for you to ask some questions about Tool co.
Lauren, could you tell me why you chose to attend Emeritus College?
Lauren (after pausing for a moment to collect her thoughts): Mike, when I was a senior at Hilton High, I became very serious in thinking about what I wanted to do in terms of college. I was admitted to several colleges, and, after visiting them, I decided Emeritus would be best for me. What I wanted was a good education and a good social life. In addition, I had some vague idea about needing a job some day, and I knew from people I had asked that Emeritus would give me good preparation.
I'm glad I made the decision I did. I've received a good education, both in liberal arts and business, and made some good friends.
In answering this question, Lauren followed the three principles I suggested to keep in mind:
- She conveyed one or more Positive Characteristics (careful preparation, balanced goals-academic, social, career);
- She cited a significant example of her preparation (visited various colleges, gained perspective on the business program's reputation) and did not give a trivial reason for choosing Emeritus ('The campus was pretty' or "The drinking age is 18 in that state');
- She avoided the very personal (she said that her social life was important, which is fine, but she did not go into detail about frat parties or her boyfriend).
Follow-Up Questions
Mike: Lauren, you mentioned that one of your reasons for choosing Emeritus was to get good education and that you were happy with your choice. Could you tell me, what was your favorite course at Emeritus and what was your least favorite?
Lauren paused here for a moment, to collect her thoughts. She realized that Mike had asked a two-part question and that the real intent of Mike's question was to see why Lauren liked or disliked a course. Lauren remembered that she wasn't being asked to rank-order her courses, literally identifying her favorite and least favorite courses.
Lauren: My favorite course was political science. It was great because the professor really challenged us to analyze important issues like how people can be affected differently by the same law. Professor Jones also helped us express ourselves. In class, he would ask questions to help us clarify our thinking--and he made some good notes on our term papers.
On the other hand, I really didn't like my course in sociology. We had this big lecture hall led by a grad assistant. The text article was pretty good, but I didn't get much out of class.
Lauren has done a good job with this question. She answered both parts of it, but kept her response brief. Lauren also conveyed one or more Positive Characteristics (analytical ability, communication skills) and gave good examples of why she liked or disliked a particular course. Notice that Lauren has utilized material she gathered in answering her Short Self-Profile (SSP) to help her at her interview. In her SSP, Lauren used her political science class as an example of her communication skill. Here, she adds analytical skills gained in the same class, because they are essential for a successful financial analyst.
Lauren has shown how to be honest and smart at the same time. In picking a course she didn't like, she identified a course not in her major and gave brief, uncontroversial reasons for disliking the course.
As many interviewers would have done, Mike has followed Lauren's first answer with a question related to it. What we have just seen is a brief example of the question-answer-question cycle.
Mike has decided to focus his attention on Lauren's career interests.
Mike: Lauren, you've given me some interesting answers about the academic side of your experience. I wonder, what interests you about a career in finance at Tool co?
Again, Lauren pauses a moment to think about Mike's question. She realizes that this is really the second of the twin peaks: Why do you want to work for us?
Lauren: Mike, I'm interested in Tool co because a career in finance with your firm would give me a chance to do several things I like and do well. For one thing, I like to analyze information and apply it to a practical situation. Another thing I like is the opportunity to use my quantitative
Process Is Paramount
There are two important things to notice in Lauren's response on her courses and throughout her interview. First, Lauren prepared for the interview and practiced interview questions, but she did not memorize her responses. Practice is professional, memorizing is for parrots. Second, as Mike listens to Lauren, he is trying to learn about her thought process: why she does things, how she deals with situations, what she likes or dislikes. Mike is not assessing every word like a scholar reviewing an ancient manuscript.
Analysis skills and computer ability both are important in finance. A third thing I want is challenge; that's very important to me.
Lauren has again followed the three principles in her response, but she has made a mistake by introducing a fine-sounding term ("challenge') when she hasn't really considered its relevance.
Lauren isn't sure whether she has answered Mike's question. Rather than continue the interview with that uncertainty over her head, she clarifies the situation.
Lauren: Mike, I've given you several reasons why I want to go into finance. Would you like me to tell you more?
Mike: Yes, I would, Lauren. You mentioned that you want a challenge in your career. What do you mean by "challenge" and can you give me an example of a challenge you have faced in the past?
Lauren said to herself: "Maybe I shouldn't have thrown in that word 'challenge' so loosely. Mike wants to know what I consider a challenge, and I haven't really thought about it before. But, no use worrying about that now. Let me think about a challenge. I would be best to get away from academic examples and give a work example."
Lauren: Well, Mike, last year I really had a challenge on my summer job. I took a job with Small co, a medium-size firm about 40 miles from here. I wanted the challenge of working in a corporate environment--I had taken previous jobs based on where I could save the most money for school. I also wanted the challenge of living away from both home and college. It was an important experience because I learned a lot about how things really get done in a firm. I also learned to be more comfortable living on my own.
Lauren has recovered well from her loose talk about 'challenge' and has given Mike some good material to follow up-especially about what Lauren learned at Small co. She has also let Mike know about her ability to live independently--a helpful Positive Characteristic because working for Tool co would require relocating.
Lauren wasn't expecting a question about "challenge." Like Lauren, you will probably have at least one question you don't expect. Your interviewers will be interested in your thought process and will probably try to find something to ask which, they believe, you haven't practiced. Don't worry:
- If you have done your work in the early articles of this article, you should have plenty of good material to utilize. What Lauren did was take an example from the first twin peak (Why Should We Hire You?) and modify it to be an example of challenge.
- Even if your answer isn't as good as you would like, no one answer is likely to make or break your chances of success at your interview.
Mike has done exactly what Lauren wanted. He has followed up on Lauren's Small co answer with a question linking her experience at Small co with a possible future at Tool co. Mike's question really belongs to the first of the twin peaks: Why Should We Hire You?
Lauren: You know, Mike, the main thing I learned at Small co was that, even in the corporate world, things don't work out with text article efficiency. For example, I was working in the accounting department doing accounts payable. I noticed that we were billed for widgets twice within a short period of time. I discussed it with my supervisor, and, to make a long story short, we found out that the purchasing department had accidentally over ordered widgets because of a miscalculation by an inventory clerk. Somehow, I used to think that private businesses didn't make mistakes--that everything worked smoothly. In reality, you can have a snafu a day, although I'm glad to say that, at Small co, people tried to make sure particular mistakes weren't repeated.
In this response, Lauren conveyed one or more of her Positive Characteristics (a sense of corporate day-to-day reality; attention to task). Her example was significant: it came from an actual work situation where Lauren experienced an important reality. Lauren did not fall into the only the All-Starts Can Play trap by trying to inflate her example into something monumental or newsworthy. Interviewers do not expect that you are a captain of industry, but they do expect your answers to be honest and believable.
Lauren had some additional examples, but she wasn't sure that Mike wanted to hear them. Instead of clogging her head with doubt, she asked Mike.
Lauren: Mike, I gave you just one example. Would you like some more examples?
Mike: No, Lauren; I'd like to hear more, but our time is running short. Besides, you've already given me some examples of your strengths. I'd like to ask you about the flip side. Everyone has weaknesses. Lauren, can you tell me about your weaknesses?
Lauren (pausing a moment): Well, as you say Mike, everyone has their weaknesses. For example, I know that sometimes I just work too hard. I get my projects completed before they're due. I know that I have to be careful not to expect that same degree of work and efficiency from everyone.
Lauren has taken the classic approach to a 'weakness' question that we discussed in Article 10. She has identified a 'weakness' that is really a strength. Notice that Lauren has kept her answer brief. This is especially important in responding to a no-win question-one that at best, you can only neutralize. Questions about 'weaknesses' or things you didn't like belong in that category. In addition, Lauren has blunted possible concern by indicating that she can't expect 'that same degree of hard work and efficiency from everyone.' That is an important statement. Some employers worry about hiring workaholics because they can drive their other staff members crazy.
In this interview with Lauren, Mike decides to see what Lauren would do if pressed on the 'weakness' question.
Mike: Lauren, that was an interesting example, but you gave me a weakness that is really strength. Can you give me an example of a weakness that would limit your effectiveness at Tool co?
If Mike had just asked for another weakness, Lauren was ready to respond with the Trivializer, like only getting a B in Chemistry. But Mike has specified 'a weakness that would limit your effectiveness at Tool co.' Lauren knows that no one can win this question, so she decides not to expose herself to potential problems by identifying more weaknesses.
Lauren (with a sincere smile on her face): Mike, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Are there any potential weaknesses I might have that concern you? I'd be glad to talk about anything you mention.
This response by Lauren is both polite and professional. Quite appropriately, it puts the burden on Mike, not Lauren, to identify possible weaknesses of concern to Tool co.
Mike: Well, Lauren, one thing I'm concerned about is your ability to deal with some of the pressure you'll experience. Some of our finance managers can be very demanding and rather pointed in their criticisms.
Lauren: I know what you mean, Mike.
Lauren actually chuckled as she thought about the example she was about to give Mike. A sincere, natural chuckle is fine; a contrived, forced chuckle is not.
Lauren: Last summer, at Small co, I had one manager like that. His name was George. He was gruff when he asked for things and usually found some fault in anything we did. Whatever he wanted was due yesterday. But I learned to deal with it by not taking George's behavior personally.
The funny thing is we went to a staff lunch at the end of the summer. George was more than pleasant; he was a ball of laughs. That experience helped me learn to separate professional relationships from personal ones.
With this answer, Lauren has addressed Mike's question about her ability to withstand pressure. Mike's concern has probably been reduced or eliminated.
About five minutes were left in the half-hour interview between Mike and Lauren. As most interviewers would do, Mike asked Lauren whether she had any questions for him.
Lauren has avoided a common blunder in her response about dealing with pressure. Some students would have said horrendous things about George and would have described the pressure at Small co as unbearable. Even if true, this is usually a poor tack to take. Avoid criticizing a former employer: it makes you sound like a malcontent, and it can introduce a tone of negativism into the rest of your interview.
Notice how Lauren stated the facts about George, to give her response context, but didn't belabor her problems with George. To the contrary, she pointed out that George was really a nice person and that she had learned the important distinction between professional and personal relations. (Understanding that distinction is in itself a Positive Characteristic.)
Questions for Mike
Mike: Lauren, you've given me some interesting answers to my questions. I wonder if you have any questions for me. Since you were at our information session last night, maybe you don't.
Lauren knew full well that she had better have some good questions to ask, even if she was at the information session.
Lauren: Thank you. Yes, I do have several questions, Mike.
I'd like to ask you about something the chairman said in Tool co's annual report. Mr. Wright was talking about the problems medium-size companies sometimes have keeping their production facilities up-to-date without heavy borrowing. Then Mr. Wright mentioned that Tool co would finance most of its modernization from current revenue. Given the amount of capital needed, do you think the chairman's goal can be achieved?
Lauren has asked about one of the four basic environments-the company.
With this question, Lauren has shown Mike that she has done her research, has thought about what she has read, and has related a general company issue, modernization, to her specific career interest, finance. As she will do with all her questions, Lauren has followed the two unbreakable rules. She has asked about a subject in which she has a sincere interest, and she has built on what she has read, rather than asking something that could be readily answered from available sources. For example, Lauren didn't ask: "Does Tool co plan to modernize its production facilities?' or 'How does Tool co finance capital improvements?'
Mike: That's a very good question, Lauren. Yes, we can achieve the goal of financing modernization without heavy borrowing. In fact, our next annual report will show that all of this year's capital investments came from current revenue flow.
Lauren listened to Mike's answer with interest. She knew that she should acknowledge Mike's response in some way before asking her next question. Lauren also knew that it would be a good idea to ask about another of the four basic environments. For her next question, Lauren chose the job.
Lauren: Mike, I'm glad to hear that Tool co is meeting its objectives in regard to financing modernization. It sounds as though Tool co has a good handle on its financial controls. That's especially interesting to me, with my goals in finance.
Mike, let me ask you a question about Tool co's Financial Management Program. I think I have a good understanding of the FMP from the recruiting brochure and your information session last night. But I'm unclear about the mix between hands-on assignments and classroom work. I'm also curious as to whether we would be involved in the finances of the modernization program while we're still in the FMP.
Mike: Those are good questions, Lauren. In the first year, about a third of your time is in class, with a special emphasis on accounting and financial controls at Tool co. After the first year, you have fewer hours of classroom work, but the classes are more advanced and tend to relate to specific issues you'll be dealing with in your second year and after you complete the program. Of course, when we talk about the mix of time, we may be talking about 60 hours a week.
In regard to the modernization, that's a main issue at Tool co for at least the next five years. You'll be spending plenty of time on it.
Lauren again listened to the answer, to make reference to it in some way before she asked her next question. Lauren also realized that, because Mike referred to 60 hours a week, she should make sure to tell Mike she's ready to do whatever it takes to succeed at Tool co.
Lauren: I appreciate your explanation about the classroom/hands-on mix. I'm most excited about the hands-on assignments, but I know from speaking to current FMPs last night that the classroom work really does tie into our work assignments. By the way, I heard about the 60 hours a week last night, too. I want you to know, Mike, that hard work and long hours don't bother me. In fact, I've been working part-time most semesters, so I'm really used to it already.
Mike, if we have time, I would like to ask you a third question. I read in The Wall Street Journal, and also in the Standard & Poor's Industry Surveys, that the tool industry is concerned about imports from Asia and about being blocked from exporting to Europe because of the new EC structure that started in 1992. Is this a concern for Tool co? Foreign markets weren't mentioned in Tool co's annual report.
With this question, Lauren acknowledged Mike's previous answer, clearly stated her willingness and ability to work long hours (it doesn't hurt to convey a Positive Characteristic), snowed that she had researched beyond Tool co's recruiting literature and annual report, and related her research to both the general tool industry and external events, two more of the four basic environments. That's quite a bit-and all in one question!
Mike: That's another good question, Lauren. In the past, Tool co didn't discuss foreign trade issues much, because we thought our domestic customer base was secure and we didn't export much. We're beginning to recognize, as your question implies, that it's a new ball game now. Tool co will have to deal with foreign competitors at home and will need to export.
Lauren, did I answer your question?
Lauren: Yes, you did, Mike. I wonder, do we have time for another question?
Mike: Well, no; I'm sorry, but we don't, Lauren. I've really enjoyed our discussion, but our time is up. (Mike stands up.) Thanks for coming in today. I appreciate your interest in Tool co.
Closing
Lauren (standing up and extending her hand to Mike): I've enjoyed meeting with you, too, Mike. I'm really glad I had this opportunity to speak with you. I was excited about Tool co before, but I'm even more excited now.
Mike, I hope you're going to invite me to a Site Visit. What's our next step?
Mike: Well, Lauren, I'm going to be reviewing all my notes this evening. I've seen a lot of good candidates at the various colleges I've visited, so I know I'll have some tough choices to make. But everyone will be hearing from me in two weeks, one way or the other.
Lauren: Thanks, Mike. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you. I hope it's good news.
Mike: Thank you, Lauren. Good luck.
In her closing, Lauren didn't just leave the room. She expressed continued (actually, increased) interest in Tool co and expressly asked for an invitation to a Site Visit. As we would expect, Mike's response was noncommittal. Still, Lauren's closing cost her nothing and might influence Mike's decision a little in her favor.
In this article, you saw an abridged version of an interview. Lauren reviewed my four thoughts before her interview, to help her achieve the right state of mind. As the interview unfolded, you experienced how Lauren answered Mike's questions, conveying some of her Positive Characteristics with each response, and you saw a brief example of the question-answer-question cycle.
You saw how Lauren asked questions that adhered to the two unbreakable rules and were related to the four environments. You noticed how Lauren acknowledged Mike's answers before asking her next question.
Finally, you saw how Lauren closed by asking for the job.
It will come as no surprise that Lauren really impressed Mike and was invited to a Site Visit at Tool co.
